I have a plastic saddle, looking to change to bone.
Can I expect a difference in the sound and generally what tone should I expect.
Is it then a case of shaping the bone saddle to match the existing plastic one......is this easily done or should I seek help from my friendly local luthier ?
Robin
Bone Saddle
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 Robingd |
Bone Saddle |
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Posts: 191 (04/13/08 01:25:25) |
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Windmolen |
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Posts: 26 (04/13/08 04:38:50) |
The good thing about changes like these is that you can expect any improvement you would like to hear. A lot of readers will disagree, but I learned that it
doesn't mean that much when you look back after a while. The guitar as such has its sound, and you cannot really change that.
Regards, John. |
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Jukeboy |
Depends | ||
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Posts: 396 (04/13/08 04:40:39) |
You should get more sustain but your tonewood will also determine how it sounds. Not a saddle, I changed the end pins on my walnut OM and it was too shrill so
I actually went back to plastic which sounds better. At some point I'll swap them for ebony. For rosewood, I think a bone saddle will sound great.
One more thing. Bone can vary in its density. Bone can have occlusions and can be uneven. You might want to try Tusq which is a very high density plastic (which I use almost exclusively). It's a fun weenie thing to try all these things so do, have fun with it!! |
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bounds |
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Posts: 25 (04/13/08 08:02:52) |
For me, changing to brass bridge pins makes a big difference to both tone and volume. I think this happens by adding mass which increases the the amount of
vibration in the top. Its a noticable and beneficial improvement for little cost.
They`re available from Stewart MacDonald (stewmac.com) Phillip |
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sands4us |
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Posts: 185 (04/13/08 08:54:18) |
Robin,
I have used Bob Colosi at http://www.guitarsaddles.com/ for all my saddle and pin upgrades. He is a one man shop and you can even give him a call and discuss what you want with him. He is great to work with and in the past he has sent me a couple sets of bridge pins to try with me returning those that didn't work for me. (just an example of how easy he is to deal with) I personally believe that the improvements gained can be variable and a bit subjective........we are talking about a subtle change in sound which can be difficult to quantify. In my experience I have swapped out the plastic saddles and pins on all my guitars with bone pins and Fossilized Walrus Ivory saddles. (Except for my Martin D-16H just because the tuner buttons are ebony I used ebony pins) I believe that I get some additional clarity in tone and some additional sustain with the upgraded saddle and pins. I have heard some say they get a harsh sound upon the swap, but I haven't had that happen in my experience, but this is where subjective ears come into play. When a new set of saddle and pins is maybe at most an $80 experiment and as far as I would suggest .....is going to give you some improvement .....it is pretty difficult to find a down side on giving it a try. As far as doing it yourself from a cheaper saddle blank.......bone is very easy to work with. Some sand paper, a flat surface to flatten the bottom of the saddle to the correct height and a couple small fine rounded files makes just mimicking the original a pretty basic and even fun project if you find enjoyment in DYI. I have shaped the intonation into a couple bone saddles very successfully. A gentle curving shape that follows the original with no sharp edges can be done in an hour of slow careful shaping. I also wrapped a fine sandpaper around various small wooden objects to get just the right working shape and the saddle can be nicely polished up with some very fine steel wool. Which ever way you go ...this is the fun part of tweaking your instruments sound so that it is the best to your ears....have some fun with it!!! If you don't mess with the original and you run into any problems it is easy to just put the original back and there is no permanent changes to your instrument......it is a no risk process! Stephen
Last Edited By: sands4us
04/13/08 09:03:58.
Edited 4 times.
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Medway Delta |
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Posts: 193 (04/14/08 02:31:28) |
It's difficult to say whether it makes much difference, maybe it's a psycological but it i prefer bone saddles and nuts. As you know most middle to top
end guitars already have bone as standard. Having said that though i have an Epiphone and a Crafter with plastic saddle and nut which both sound fine.
Like Sands4us i have used Mr. Carlosi's bridge pins which are superb, but you need to give him precise dimensions down to thousandths of an inch so you will have to buy a vernia caliper to make accurate measurements. These calipers are not dear now and are well worth buying, you can get them in Aldis from time to time for about £7 or on ebay for not much more. Recently i have made several bone nuts and saddles replacing worn out originals using blanks from Stewmac, i haven't found any supplier of bone blanks in the UK. You used to be able to get them from guitar shops but they don't seem to stock them anymore. Anyway have a go, saddles are relatively easy especially as you've got the original to use as a pattern. You can get a pack of several shapes of modelling files from Wilkinsons very cheaply. Buy a couple of blanks in case you mess up the first one. There is a minimum of $30 on orders from Stewmac, if you need to make up the price get one of their string height gauges they're invaluable and get them to ship via US postal service not DHL as customs charge duty on the carriage aswell!! Outrageous!! |
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Robingd |
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Posts: 193 (04/14/08 14:18:55) |
Really appreciate your thoughts
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EasyRider |
Re: Bone Saddles and Bridge Pins | ||
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Posts: 907 (04/15/08 06:27:23) |
I changed my saddles from plastic to bone and noticed a very favorable improvement in tone, volume and sustain.
I am thinking about ordering some bone pins, to replace the standard plastic ones. Do they make a noticeable difference? At any rate, if they are not glued in, they can easily be swapped back and forth. Does anybody want a set of Ebony Pins, with MOP inlays, that I have? I thought white pins, with black dots, looked better on my guitar.. |
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rrupert |
pins | ||
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Posts: 2 (04/15/08 06:31:19) |
I have tried two or three sets from stew mac and others, either material or size has been a problem, do you think your ebony pins would fit in a 2007 Martin
00-18V, need slotted pins
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Avalokitesvara |
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Posts: 5 (04/15/08 07:12:19) |
DIY
I've recently changed my bone nut for a tusq one, purely because I needed to increase the string spacing a bit at the nut. Following instructions from frets.com and bryankimsey.com it was a fairly simple job (having spent a few quid on nut files!!). I also replaced the bone saddle with tusq while I was at it which was even simpler. Got my tusq bits cheaply on ebay (£5 each). Soundwise its very difficult to discern a difference. I think it sounds better but I changed the action a little at the same time and also changed the strings so it is nigh on impossible to tell. I would certainly recommend having a go yourself. A: because you can take ages over it making tiny changes until it is just right (not sure how many shop repair luthiers do this!) B: It's a good skill to have. I've since altered the slot depth in the nut of another guitar and made it nicer to play. I also plan to upgrade the nut and saddle on my epiphone 'beater' to tusq. Jobs that would cost me a lot more than the cost of a set of nut files. Perhaps if I spent more time practicing and less time fiddling about with / adding to my guitar collection I might actually be quite good. PS: I once read that the reason people think their guitar is improved by changing nut/saddle/both, is simply because they invariably have new strings on at the same time. I imagine this is not far wrong!! John |
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