Friends, can you help me with a MJH question (and please bear with my lack of formal musical vocabulary)? I've been fussing with the opening riff of
Richland Women Blues for some time--including working with Stefan's instructional CD--but can't nail it down. I'm referring to the
rat-a-tat-a-tat-tat that John uses to open all versions of the recordings I have. The sequence appears in mid-song as well. Is this a hammer? a slide between
frets on the same string? or an alternate picking between two adjacent strings? Thanks, Mark
Fingering for MJH's Richland Women Blues
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 Clearwrite |
Fingering for MJH's Richland Women Blues |
Lead | |
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Posts: 75 (09/17/08 13:26:55) |
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EasyRider |
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Posts: 951 (09/17/08 13:47:07) |
MJH played with his thumb and two fingers. I hold a C chord and just slide my pinky down to the 2nd string, 4th fret and play the first and second strings, in
eighth notes over the alternating bass.
This was the first MJH song I learned, in 1965.
Last Edited By: EasyRider
09/17/08 14:19:56.
Edited 1 times.
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Dziadurski |
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Posts: 80 (09/17/08 13:49:26) |
Mark, Yes, I struggled with that lick for a while too, and now I play it holding a regular first position C chord and sliding my pinky from the 3rd fret, B string
to the 4th fret and then alternate between D# and open E string while keeping the base going. For the F chord, I do the same trick, but use a partial one
finger F chord with my middle finger on the 3rd fret of the D string, so the base goes between A (A string open) and F (3rd fret D string). Wow, that sounds
pretty involved, and I know that's not how MJH played it, but works for me.
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a2tom |
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Posts: 300 (09/17/08 19:44:08) |
I agree with the above folks on the high strings - a slide from fret 3 to fret 4 on the second string to start out, followed by alternating picking
("rolling" between index and middle fingers) on fret 4 second string and open 1st string.
However, I am not sure I understand if you others are playing this over a held C or F chord? You can tell from the bass notes that Hurt lifted the C and F chords when he played this riff, so that the bass notes were on open strings. On most iterations, the bass notes on beats 2, 3 and 4 are D (open 4th), A (open 5th) and D again. Thus, the only finger on the fretboard is the pinky on string 2. Curiously, inthe intro beats 2, 3, and 4 are D, E (open 6th) and D again in one iteration. I don't know if he just overshot the A and caught the E instead, or if he meant to do that! tom |
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Dziadurski |
re | ||
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Posts: 81 (09/17/08 22:57:00) |
Tom, I play the lick over the held C chord, bass notes C and E, and then over the held F chord (only one finger), bass notes A and F. You are probably right that
it's not how Hurt played it, but oh well..
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Medway Delta |
richland | ||
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Posts: 215 (09/18/08 00:56:59) |
My hands aren't big enough to hold a C chord and do the rat-a- tat bit, so like a2tom i slide from the 3rd fret second string into the Eb with my pinky.
I don't think it matters too much whether you lead into the verse on the "rat" or the "-a-" or if you play 3 or 5 or more rat-a-tat- tats. I think i can hear on the CD that comes with the "Masters of Country Blues" several variations in the way they are played. |
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Clearwrite |
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Posts: 76 (09/18/08 10:36:04) |
Thanks to all. It was the first/second string alternation that I couldn't get into my head. I think because John's roll was so seamless, I kept hearing
a slide or hammer. I believe the bass notes will fall into place once I convince my pinky to reach that fourth fret from the first-position C! Appreciate the
help. Mark
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a2tom |
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Posts: 301 (09/18/08 15:26:27) |
certainly, Greg or anyone is free to play the thing however tickles or satisfies them!
I just hope the point isn't lost that fretting the 4th fret from a 1st position C chord is indeed challenging - possible, but not easy. That is contrasted with releasing the chord and sliding the pinky up by moving the -entire hand- up one fret position (i.e. move the hand, not the finger). That is very easy and stronger on the pinky slide. tom |
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a2tom |
the HARD part is... | ||
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Posts: 302 (09/18/08 16:34:17) |
So, the part of Richland Woman that has always really dogged me isn't the roll, it's the slightly weird way that the beats and measures get parsed.
The above is my TAB for the intro (pretty accurate to how actually played, but I won't swear to every single rolling note that Hurt loved to play with his index finger on the G string...). The part I always trip over is what I call measure 10 - after three beats of alternating bass in the F chord, the melody notes come in pretty hard on beat 4 in a way that just creates this really odd - but wonderful - syncopation. That whole line is then followed by 6 beats on the C chord. Given the way the beat emphasis falls I've wondered many times if this would be better parsed into measures in a different way, but I always seem to end up something like this - I'm sure in a way the formality of measures isn't really the point, but it can definitely help me get the playing of something down - only I still trip over this every time. I'd love it if someone had better insight into the logic of the beat parsing/syncopation. tom |
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a2tom |
heh heh | ||
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Posts: 303 (09/18/08 17:00:06) |
I just discovered that's its really easy to capture the MIDI playback from NIFTE - if you're curious this is the way my Richland Woman intro TAB
sounds...
Richland_MIDI.mp3 tom |
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a2tom |
different view of it | ||
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Posts: 304 (09/20/08 05:15:32) |
at the risk of beating a horse no one else cares about, here is a different view of the same tab as before.
I have parsed it differently, including - deleted the first rat-a-tat pickup notes to allow later measures to line up (I could have moved these to the end of measure 16 but didn't bother) - forced everything into 4-bar measures - highlighted the rat-a-tats in the song So, the first two rat-a-tats are what the original question was about - the slide to 4th fret 2nd string, alternated with first string. However, this current alignment shows how two phrases later in the song are mimicking the rat-a-tat, breaking up its very regular pattern a bit, and now just staying on the 3rd fret 2nd string. The point of this tab image is that I have parsed it so the rat-a-tats all fall in the same place in parallel measures (i.e. beats 2 to 4 of measures 2, 4, 10 and 12). Just looking at that it all seems very easy! Just play the rat-a-tats on the chord instead of with the slide and roll. It's all very parallel and obvious. What makes it tricky, I now see, is what is going on with the underlying chords. Highlighted in red you can see that in the first 8 bars, he lands on the F and C chords on the first beat of measures 1 and 3. But he doesn't land on those F and C chords until beats 3 of measures 9 and 11. But the subsequent G chord still comes in regular on beat 1 of measures 5 and 13. So... the crazy syncopation effect the second time through comes because he holds through the C and F chords two beats farther into measures 9 and 11 then you'd expect by simple symmetry. It's the 2nd beat of measure 11 where he clearly plays the 3rd fret 4th string (F) of the F chord, where you ear expects to be getting the C chord, that most creates the unexpected lilt. Very cool - maybe someone else will find this interesting. Certainly I know this insight helps me play it with the Hurt lilt now (very happy, and it only took me 15 years to get!). Hurt was a master at this kind of thing - this is by far not the only song were he creates these great effects by messing with the measure symmetry, in fact I'd say it was a stock in trade for him. Just one of the many ways I think people who view him as playing "simple alternating bass" are missing the boat... tom nifte at niftesoft.com |
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a2tom |
in for a dime... | ||
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Posts: 305 (09/21/08 05:06:57) |
to make it clear, the verse is different. Hung on the same basic form, but now the chords land still differently in measures 1, 3, 9, and 11. (perhaps this
all was obvious to others, but I've played this song for years, knowing that I wasn't really getting what Hurt did, and this is the reason - have to
switch up the chord parsing between break and verse).
Verse 1 
tom nifte at niftesoft.com |
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Clearwrite |
Devil in the Details | ||
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Posts: 77 (09/27/08 09:42:12) |
Tom,
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. I now recognize--but enjoy--the fact that I have far more work cut out for me than I had imagined. Still, I'm encouraged by your comment about getting it closer to right after only 15 years. My own very modest efforts to learn John's music incline me to agree with your notion that people who think of his guitar work as being simplistic are "missing the boat." An example that comes immediately to mind is Stephen Calt's description (I'd Rather Be the Devil: Skip James and the Blues, Chicago Review Press, 1994, p.306) : "...while novel in technique [John's style] had all the prerequisite familiarity necessary to engage coffee-house patrons, thanks to its pattern picking and its almost incessant alternating bass....Hurt was largely locked into a single rhythmic accompaniment...." Then again, Calt elsewhere tells us that John's voice was "puny" and his singing "wispy." De gustibus. Mark |
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a2tom |
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Posts: 306 (09/28/08 04:34:25) |
No problem. Didn't expect to see this thread pop up again, but since it has I feel compelled to point out a mistake (probably of many!) in my tab that I
caught after posting. The lick in question in this thread is actually a triplet figure of D, Eb, E coming out of the slide, not the eighth note pattern as I
tabbed it. I find the triplet harder. It isn't actually the triplet figure per se, but playing it evenly and still landing the treble E AND the bass
solidly on the downbeat is tricky. Tricky enough that I've wondered if maybe he executed the triplet differently than has been suggested (e.g. all on the
2nd string?) but that I can't seem to make that work no how, since the next notes are so obviously played rolling between the 1st and 2nd strings. So, I do
think the fingering is the same as suggested, but just accelerating the pinky slide a bit to make it be triplet.
tom nifte at niftesoft.com |
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